Building the SRC V Class

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Robert_Boyle
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby Robert_Boyle » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:32 pm

AndrewCudgewa wrote:Anyway, would it be helpful/interesting to any members/readers? Is there any interest in my doing so?

Stop prevaricating and just do it.............

Here's the 'Round Tuit' you need, so you can't use that as excuse either. :D

Image

RB

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K160
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby K160 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:08 pm

lol, good to see someone else has a stock of round ones. :lol:
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AndrewCudgewa
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby AndrewCudgewa » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:56 pm

G'day all,

Thanks all, message heard! :) On the forum it is then....

Robert_Boyle wrote:Here's the 'Round Tuit' you need, so you can't use that as excuse either. :D
Image
RB


Ha! Thanks RB, not seen one of those before, will add to the modelling tool desk....

Ok, let’s get going...... For completeness I’ll take it from the start (this bit happened a few moons ago)......

Chapter 1 – Commencement/Choices/Caveats

First is the choice of RTR to base the V on. I chose the Roundhouse 2-8-0 as:

1. It quite closely matches the V in some dimensions (we’ll see how it doesn’t in others...)

2. has a motor mounted in a cast boiler & surrounds

3. Is relatively low cost (I picked mine up for $97 in mid 2010)

4. Has a nice smooth mechanism

5. Is quite available – if going to this trouble, for sanity choose a RTR chassis you can replace/get parts for. On the negative, it has traction tyres which provide great adhesion but I don’t need the cost (dirt etc.) of traction tyres with a near level layout. On the subject of parts, I rang Roundhouse regards obtaining some spares to be ready for that day when the tyres leave this coil. They don’t have any, and recommended Bullfrog Snot. I thought of some words regarding this situation that aren’t printable. So much for my choosing a chassis with parts.....

Nb. There are other possible RTR basis for the V, which I assume are equally suitable, some of the steps following would likely work for those also.

Alright then, how does the Roundhouse 2-8-0 shape up? For a “quickie” comparison as to applicability of an overseas RTR chassis I overlay a picture/diagram over a good scale drawing. For my “quickie” I used the drawing in the “Green Book” for comparison (remembering that the Green Book picture is as built, not as later) however given copyright issues, I can’t show that here, so attach the diagram I dummied up quickly below just to give you the idea of how this is done. Within MS Paintbrush one can make images transparent and resize then overlay them. Before there are too many :o /gasps/ :shock: /sacre bleu’s, remember, this is just a “quickie” to see if we’re in the ballpark before committing mularr ....

Image

Background Diagram: PROV

From the quickie we can make a few observations:

On the Right side, the driving wheel dimensions and their placement looks quite good, and the boiler dimensions look not too bad. I know from looking at a parts diagram that there’s a big weight above a low mounted engine that should be able to be reduced if I find the boiler is indeed too high/large. The tender wheel placement appears close.

On the Wrong side, obvious issues that will need to be dealt with are already apparent even from this high level look, namely:
- Cab placement
- Cab type
- Chimney and dome type and placement, and possibly all else above the footplate
- Probably the footplate also
- Tender bogie frames
- Tender size (esp. length)
- Cylinders
- Cross head – wrong type
- Driving wheel spokes?

..........other than that (....!) as most of these issues are superficial, the Roundhouse 2-8-0 seems to give us a platform to work with.........................

Now, I don’t know of any suppliers of this loco locally, and don’t know anyone who has one, so I took a risk ordering one. The low cost made that feasible. If it cost more I would find someone willing to measure it, mind you if it cost more I probably wouldn’t be too keen on chopping it up.

Also reducing the risk is some basic research - parts diagrams on the internet reveal what’s where under the covers of the loco (eg. If the motor mounted so high as to not allow modification), and forums include discussions that sometimes cover off dimensions or what the prototype the model was based on had, allowing a bit better guessing as to how the model might be. The DCC fad helps us here as there are now usually countless pictures of loco mechanisms on the net as hapless punters work out ways to install chips.

But there was still a risk I would end up with a nice but unusable loco.

Appropriate at this point to state some caveats:

1.
This model can only ever be “near” as some of the differences will not be possible to work around in a timeframe shorter than building the model from absolute scratch. Compromises will be necessary. How “near”the model finishes up I will leave to you to decide.

2.
As mentioned in the opening mail my time is more limited now, so this may take a while. For those considering a scratchbuild, keep in mind the actual build time (as opposed to elapsed) is likely less than you think. Given how few scratchbuilders seem to exist it’s amazing how much “conventional wisdom” there is on how long it takes to scratchbuild, go figure.

3.
This is only my way of building a V. Likely not the best or worst way. Please know I don’t hold any claim this is the best way, I just need a V for my layout and am tackling how to get it.

4.
As I write this I have realised it will be hard to write honestly without my views creeping in. They’re only my views, please take them with a grain of salt and take no offence. If it offends, please stop reading.

Next: Chapter 2 – The Model vs. Prototype

Cheers, Andrew

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james13
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby james13 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:06 pm

As usual Andrew, a good read. I look forward to more installments coming soon. 8-)
Modelling the trains I like

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AndrewCudgewa
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby AndrewCudgewa » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:39 pm

Chapter 2 – the Model vs. the Prototype

Now we have committed mularr and have the model, it’s time for a peek and measure around to see whether we’ve just burnt precious budget or been rewarded for our risk. Here’s the untouched model beautiful in its pristine-ness (not a real word):

Image

Image

Here’s some approximate (I use a ruler and don't always get my calculations right.... :roll: ) comparison dimensions (Prototype first followed by Roundhouse in mm/number):

Drivers

Driving Wheel dia. 15.75 vs 15.2

Driving Wheel centres: 16.63 vs 16.5

Driver spokes: 13 vs 13 (though two are joined)

Balance weights: 5 spokes vs 5 spokes

Two centre drivers are flangeless on prototype and model

Main rod drives to 3rd driver

Pilot

Dia. 9.1 spoked vs (I think) 7.5 disc

Distance lead driver to pilot: 27.65 vs 29

Tender

Tender wheel dia.: 10.85 (spoke) vs 9.8 (disc)

Tender wheel centres: 18.55 vs 19

Tender bogie centres: 35 vs 38.5

Boiler

Boiler dia.: 16.91 (smokebox, main barrel is approx.. 18) vs 19

So, the key dimensional issues with the chassis are the pilot and tender wheels being too small and discs, and a boiler barrel being slightly too wide. Other than this...., it looks workable.

A closer look finds a couple of further challenges to those found in the arms length review in Chapter 1:

1. The running boards are cast with the boiler casting so will take a bit of work to remove.

2. The steamchests are also cast into the cylinder block.

3. The tender is part of the pick-up and has the usual half dozen wires connecting into the motor, part of it being DCC ready. Given it’s a lower cost loco, it seems cost has been saved by not providing for separation of loco and tender without chopping wires. Given the work on the chassis, loco body and tender can be done autonomously so there may be a way to get around chopping/reconnecting the wires.

4. As the tender picks up, the tender wheels may have to be retained as they fit very well. Sadly they’re disc wheels. Now, experts tell me the first V had disc wheels on its’ tender but this was the first (and if I recall correctly they didn’t last its life). That might have to be one of those compromises.

There will be many other items requiring change, we’ll pick those up as we work through the build.

Having decided it looks possible, I run the locomotive, quite a bit, and in the service it will be intended for. There’s no sense scratch building on a dud chassis or one that won’t do the job. I picked up my model a year or so ago and have run it in service occasionally. Not many pictures were taken during this stage, here’s one of the few (note the transition coupling equipped IZ doing it’s job between the knuckle fitted 2-8-0 and the load) with the one-day-a-V on a Dn goods about to cross the D1 on an Up Goods in the barren wasteblocks of the unscenicked side of Glenburn:

Image

I’m impressed by how smooth this chassis really is, particularly given its’ cost, and the apparently endless pulling power, Yes that’s partly courtesy that traction tire, but this good performance wins me over a bit more.

Next: Chapter 3 – Sorting the Men from the Boys

Cheers, Andrew

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AndrewCudgewa
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby AndrewCudgewa » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:24 pm

G'day All,

Chapter 3– Sorting the Men from the Boys

Next step is actually quite hard, there's little modelling skill, but I find it mentally challenging.

The model looks great, it is brand new. Now it’s time to strip it down and deconstruct it. Parts are often broken in the process. They wouldn’t be used anyway, but it’s quite hard to break up something brand new, it seems a bit wrong, sometimes it seems like you’re pitting your confidence of doing better against a whole team who have manufactured the loco. Also, let’s be frank, if this doesn’t work you just burned $97 :!: Making it harder is some of the fittings need to be wrenched or hacked from the previously pristine loco. Bit of a “modelling men from the modelling boys” moment I reckon.

So, strip every detail off the locomotive boiler and tender that can be removed including the cab, all fittings, coal load, lamps etc. etc. This doesn't take long and soon you just have a chassis with a boiler and a bare tender - just the bare bones of a locomotive. The parts would have only got in the way of the rebuild and in virtually every case (exception that springs to mind might be the Westinghouse pumps) won’t be re-used for the V.

Unless bits are wrecked, I store away those natty pieces that might be useful for this or something else. They are generally specific to the loco and in my experience actually surprisingly un-useful. Nonetheless try not to use them as a junkyard on your layout, very clichéd indeed. Here are all the bits from both this 2-8-0, and a couple of other scratchbuilding victims.....

Image
Image

...........see, looks nothing like a junkyard. :)

Next Chapter we will finally get to the build. You might be thinking “Yeah, yeah, just get on with it” right? I have deliberately devoted 3 Chapters to this point as once you’re here there’s no going back, you either build it or you bin it. So a measured approach through these early stages is a good start to such a build – Proper Preparation etc etc..

Next: Chapter 4 – The re/new-build starts

Cheers, Andrew

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Nathan1000
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby Nathan1000 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:56 am

G'day Andrew,

Those chimneys and steam domes look interesting, what locos did they come from? I stumble quite abit over steam domes and chimneys, I'll have to start buying them now :(
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forthbrdge
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby forthbrdge » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:43 pm

Keep up the great series Andrew, I found myself searching eBay for a roundhouse consolidation. One question, do you think the old MDC Roundhouse 2-8-0 old timer kit would be similar?

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AndrewCudgewa
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby AndrewCudgewa » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:45 pm

Nathan1000 wrote:G'day Andrew, Those chimneys and steam domes look interesting, what locos did they come from? I stumble quite abit over steam domes and chimneys, I'll have to start buying them now :(


G'day Nathan, the black/grey chimneys and domes are from either this 2-8-0, the Bachmann 4-6-0, the Hornby Terrier or the Liliput HOn30 0-6-2 (the two little ones). The brass funnels and domes are from Casula Hobbies under their "Classic Brass Models" range, the longer one is for a 32 Class, the shorter for a 50 Class (I think).

Cheers, Andrew

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AndrewCudgewa
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Re: Building the SRC V Class

Postby AndrewCudgewa » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:59 pm

forthbrdge wrote:Keep up the great series Andrew, I found myself searching eBay for a roundhouse consolidation. One question, do you think the old MDC Roundhouse 2-8-0 old timer kit would be similar?


G'day Pete,

Thanks for the feedback, good to know it's interesting. :)

I've not had one of the old MDC Roundhouse 2-8-0's buit from what I can glean on the 'Net, it's based on/very similar to the dimensions of that model however with a lower boiler and very slightly smaller drivers. There's a pretty light review at:
http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1905/roundhouse_2-8-0/

There's also some comment on the MDC 2-8-0 here (scroll down to MDC):
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/model/HO-steam.php

Hope that's some help mate.

Cheers, Andrew


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